Hermit Road
11:54 Wed Feb 4
Re: Stephen Fry talking about God
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AfM 11:33 Wed Feb 4
Re: Stephen Fry talking about God
It is also possible that you have free will and there is no god.
Not unless you just invent something godlike to replace god.
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cholo
11:53 Wed Feb 4
Re: Stephen Fry talking about God
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You could counter hermits argument by mentioning the paradox of free will concerning an omniscient God.
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Hammer and Pickle
11:39 Wed Feb 4
Re: Stephen Fry talking about God
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It is also possible that there is no difference between the illusion of free will and the reality of free will.
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AfM
11:33 Wed Feb 4
Re: Stephen Fry talking about God
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It is also possible that you have free will and there is no god.
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Hermit Road
11:25 Wed Feb 4
Re: Stephen Fry talking about God
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And I do agree with you that none of that proves that there is or isn't a god.
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Sir Alf
11:24 Wed Feb 4
Re: Stephen Fry talking about God
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If there is anything other than science involved (and I would entertain the idea that there is a possibility albeit small IMO) with the origins of life and the universe you can 99.9999999% bet it is nothing like the human invented/determined gods and religions so many people mindlessly follow and which they conjured up so many petite rules and rituals for :-) They are tools for control.
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Hermit Road
11:24 Wed Feb 4
Re: Stephen Fry talking about God
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Afm,
If the universe is deterministic, and the law of cause and effect suggests it is, then I have no free will. No ability to choose anything, just an illusion of choice. In such a world I cannot by definition choose to be a theist or an atheist.
If there is a god (remember I said if) that leaves open the possibility that we have free will (it doesn't say we have free will, just that the possibility exists), in such a world I have the ability to choose to be an atheist or a theist.
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AfM
11:19 Wed Feb 4
Re: Stephen Fry talking about God
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No, I don't think it's a false dichotomy. I think it's just irrelevant.
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AfM
11:19 Wed Feb 4
Re: Stephen Fry talking about God
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And, by the way, I didn't choose not to believe in any of the gods I've heard of. I just don't.
There wasn't even an illusion of choice. The faith simply isn't there any more.
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Hermit Road
11:17 Wed Feb 4
Re: Stephen Fry talking about God
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Afm, one thing at a time. The false dichotomy, do you still think it is?
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AfM
11:13 Wed Feb 4
Re: Stephen Fry talking about God
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It doesn't matter if the universe is deterministic, Hermit. It is what it is.
If we can't tell if it is or not then it's meaningless drivel.
Whether it is deterministic or not has no bearing whatsoever on the existence or otherwise of a god.
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AfM
11:12 Wed Feb 4
Re: Stephen Fry talking about God
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Also, Hermit.
It's entirely possible for there not to be a god and te human concept of "free will" to be really, actually meaningless piffle with no bearing on the reality of how the universe or the brain works.
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Hermit Road
11:11 Wed Feb 4
Re: Stephen Fry talking about God
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No one can prove that the universe is deterministic, it's just that everything we know so far seems to indicate it is.
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Hermit Road
11:10 Wed Feb 4
Re: Stephen Fry talking about God
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"It is entirely possible to not believe in any god and there not be one"
You are correct, but that's not what I said.
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cholo
11:10 Wed Feb 4
Re: Stephen Fry talking about God
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Hermit if you can prove that either God exists, or that the universe is strictly deterministic then you're right that there is no false dichotomy, but you can't, no one can, yet.
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AfM
11:07 Wed Feb 4
Re: Stephen Fry talking about God
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Yes there is, Hermit.
It is entirely possible to not believe in any god and there not be one. As such, yours is a false dichotomy.
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Hermit Road
11:05 Wed Feb 4
Re: Stephen Fry talking about God
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There's no false dichotomy.
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Hammer and Pickle
11:05 Wed Feb 4
Re: Stephen Fry talking about God
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The synthetic a priori is exactly what it pretends to be - a cause without a cause we generate despite the laws of chemistry and physics, which happen all around us and we can't do anything about anyway.
See it's simple Hermit - there is the domaine of Pure Reason - maths and physics and all that, and that Practical Reason, which starts with the synthetic a priori and is all about morality, economics and politics.
Of course the two are one, but they are better not wilfully confused as you seem to insist on doing on here every once in a while.
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Far Cough
11:04 Wed Feb 4
Re: Stephen Fry talking about God
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No it doesn't matter but the fact that eminent physicists have diverging views, proves things are not so clear cut
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Hermit Road
11:04 Wed Feb 4
Re: Stephen Fry talking about God
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"The only trouble is that it could be that there is no god and that free will is an illusion."
That is the point I was making.
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AfM
11:02 Wed Feb 4
Re: Stephen Fry talking about God
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Far Cough,
Even Stephen Hawking is an atheist.
It simply doesn't matter who believes or doesn't believe in any god.
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